Tuesday, 29 September 2009

Diabetes Vitamin D.

We know from articles such as this
Diabetes: Incidence of childhood type 1 diabetes: a worrying trend that there is an increase in incidence of Type One.

In an earlier blog Vitamin D Diabetes prevention I link to Frank Garland explaining the science showing the Type I incidence could largely be prevented if the vitamin D status of pregnant and nursing mothers and their offspring was brought up to the level that allows human breast milk to flow replete with vitamin D3.

But it isn't just the evidence in that video.
Since then The geospatial relation between UV solar radiation and type 1 diabetes in Newfoundland.
has shown that in those areas of Newfoundland where they get the least UVB reaching the ground
irradience Newfoundland

we find the greatest incidence of Type One Diabetes.
vitamin d, UVB, Type 1 Diabetes, incidence

However the only way the general public will come to hear about the relation between Increased incidence of Type One Diabetes in Children with lowest levels of vitamin D is if the online forums dedicated to Diabetes information are prepared to carry it.

Diabetes Daily have once again banned me for mentioning that Vitamin D is associated with all forms of Diabetes. In this case the trigger was the research
Low serum adiponectin predicts 10-year risk of type 2 diabetes and HbA1c independently of obesity, lipids, and inflammation: Whitehall II study.
Nephropal has a blog on the topic of adiponectins that shows What raises adiponectin levels?
resveratrol - wine, mulberry, cacao
calorie restriction
Vitamin D
and if we connect that with the fact that the risk of incident diabetes decreased by 11% for 1 microg/ml higher adiponectin levels, it should be obvious that anyone interested in reducing Diabetes Incidence would want to know how to raise vitamin D status safely, how to be sure you have a safe level of 25(OH)D, and where to obtain vitamin D and testing from as cheaply as possible.

But that kind of information is not welcome on a site that is dedicated to maintaining diabetes incidence and simply isn't interested in prevention at all. I just don't understand why they are so unwilling to allow people with diabetes to have access to this information.


Anna said...


Sorry to learn about the closed minds at Diabetes Daily. I'm not surprised, though. Seems like so many want to shut their eyes and hum loudly to avoid disrupting their fantasies. Heaven forbid a contrary notion should enter their consciousness. Keep up the good work you do.

TedHutchinson said...

Yes I don't take kindly to being bullied.
Full text of the Adiponection leads to type 2 diabetes Whitehall study

Rosso said...

Hello Ted,

Can I ask you what your views are on sub-lingual Vitamin D3?

Would a sub-lingual pathway of D3 prove to be more efficient than gel capsules? Almost any form of substance may be amenable to sub lingual administration if it dissolves easily in saliva. However, vitamin D3 is fat soluble and not water.

I found the following product:


Rosso said...

Hiya Ted,

I've just digested your post and had a look over on Diabetics Daily. I find it abhorrent that you were banned. Don't let this deter you at all mate from informing people of what D3 is capable of.

TedHutchinson said...

Mercola does a sub lingual spray as well, not sure how it compares in price.
My view is that the skin is the natural route for vitamin d production and absorption so where people have problems absorbing D3 orally (Crohn's disease, IBS or other condition where the intestines are seriously damaged) then dissolving the fine powder from inside a Biotech pharmacal 50,000iu capsule into an edible massage oil (coconut oil ~ sweet almond oil) and massaging this into the skin seems the best route to me. As you would need to massage it in once a week then it's going to be a cheaper option but you would need to check after a couple of months to make sure your 25(OH)D is where you want it to be.

The only way to be certain is to have a Grassrootshealth 25(0H)D test prior to using the sublinguals, then use them for a couple of months then retest to be certain these are producing the results as claimed.

I can't see any reason why these should not work and as it's likely that dissolving in the mouth and some of the D3 being absorbed by the tissues under the tongue and in the mouth means there is less reliance on the rest of the digestive system and this may be advantageous to people who know they have a problem with their intestines.

I know that the cheapo 5000iu oil based gel caps work fine for me so I've no reason to spend more money on these, so I won't be trying them but I'm sure these micro fast dissolving tabs will work.
However as they cost 8.6p daily whereas the ones I use cost 2.6p daily. The difference in cost is still fairly trivial so it's not something I would lose sleep over.

TedHutchinson said...

I should have added it would be useful if anyone using this form, or Mercola's sublingual spray had a 25(OH)D test and reported back what the result is, irrespective of whether they work well or not.

If you've been using 5000iu/d3 from an oil based gel cap for 3 months not achieved 50ng/ml but find 3 months using 5000iu/d/D3 from sublingual either spray/microcap produces a higher or lower level then that evidence of how it worked for you, may help others decide.

Jordan Leven said...

For the record, Ted was banned for calling the people who run the board Nazis multiple times for not allowing links to commercial sites. Trashing those who spent time building a community for their anti-spam policies is a reasonable reason to ban someone. It's extremely disrespectful to those who pour their time and energy into the project.

TedHutchinson said...

For the record, Ted was banned for calling the people who run the board Nazis multiple times for not allowing links to commercial sites.That is a shocking totally dishonest statement. As no point have I ever used the word Nazi nor have I implied the moderators acted in a NAZI like way. It is a downright lie and Jordan should be thoroughly ashamed of telling unsupportable lies in public.

I do believe however the moderation at Diabetes Daily is overzealous and I have pointed this out to them both in PM's and in threads where others have made similar points about the constraints this places on constructive informed debate.

I have made it clear that the priorities of any site for those with a chronic condition should put the best interests of the members of that site first.

It is morally and ethically wrong therefore to prevent people being told where the cheapest source of Vitamin D testing can be obtained.

The site moderators can easily check with the Charity concerned whether or not affliate fees or any reward for referrals is ever paid in kind or money.

Grassrootshealth will confirm this is not the case and never has been. Therefore, I should not have been threatened or bullied or prevented from mentioning how to obtain 25(OH)D tests at cost price.

With regard to the references to the cheapest source of Vitamin D3 again I have asked to the site to obtain it's own reward code so we can all use that and the site would benefit. If they are too lazy to do that because they know the potential rewards are so trivial then they should not prevent others from showing people where the cheapest source is particlarly as their rules do allow people to mention commercial links where it is relevant.

The best interests both financial and health wise of their diabetic readers should always come first.

It is because Diabetes Daily demonstrably do NOT put the best interests of it's members first that they need to be have it explained to them where they are going wrong.

Why, when we know that vitamin D is associated with every form of diabetes, doesn't each of the specific forums devoted to specific types diabetes have a thread devoted to the role of vitamin D in that particular form of diabetes?

The role is subtly different in each case and by using the available research these matters should be made clear to those with that particular form of diabetes.

Diabetes Daily will however remove threads that attempt to do this as such information may enable people to avoid getting that form of diabetes in the first place or because such knowledge would allow those with that form of diabetes to better control it and therefore lessen it's impact.

Diabetes Daily appears reluctant to enable anything, however trivial, that might prevent or lessen the impact of Diabetes.

If Jordan Leven wants a society where people are martyrs to their condition and where it's impossible for anyone to provide up to date science based research to explain what is going on and what can be done about it then I'm sorry for Jordan and for the rest of that community.

My view is that if you have a particular condition, the more the learn about that condition, the better you are able to control it.

In these times of financial hardship for many, showing people where the cheapest source of testing or supplies is of paramount importance.

It is putting the best health and financial interests of Diabetics first should be the major priority for Diabetes Daily.
It is shameful that Jordan feels it necessary to come here and post downright lies.

It is worse that on that site it is impossible to explain how best diabetics can be helped with links to the most recent research and be offered practical advice where relevant.

If the moderators at Diabetes Daily want respect then they have to earn that respect by demonstrating at all time putting the best interests of all Diabetics first is what they are about.

Anna said...

Ted, thanks for that response. Frankly, I tend to put my faith in your version of the story. I've read your comments on many health blogs and they are always informed and rational. I find the moderator claims hard to believe.

I can assure anyone who thinks that the Grassroots Health D*Action study is for profit that it isn't. When I learned that the Grassroots Health D*Action study was administered in the same town where I live, I immediately contacted the administrator to find out more. I volunteered to help. This program is administered by University of California faculty and their meager resources are stretched to the limit (UC budgets have been slashed across the board). I have helped GRH when I have spare time by stuffing test kit packets to mail to participants so GRH can save the cost of hiring a service to stuff envelopes. They are an excellent organization and the data they collect for their study will further Vitamin D research immensely. Additionally, GRH is providing an economical way for people to take responsibility for their health without unnecessary obstructions that many doctors, health systems, and insurance programs sometimes place in the way of patients' health.

Even though my family can have 25 (OH)D tests at our health network with HMO insurance coverage, we are participating in GRH's testing because we want our data included in the research study. For our son, the blood drop test is easier than drawing a big tube of blood, too.

Additionally, my inlaws in the UK have not been able to get Vit D testing via NHS, so they participate in the GRH study, too. Good thing, too, because their levels were not only low, but quite deficient, and one was the lowest I have *ever* heard of at 9 ng/mL!

Keep up the good work, Ted! You are providing important information to people. You'll just have to find more creative ways to get the word out, because the diabetes authorities would rather treat us like sheeple.

TedHutchinson said...

I have now been banned permanently from Diabetes Daily for daring to suggest they put their own link to Grassrootshealth D Action and have their own link to the Cheapest source of Vitamin D3.
I'm sure everyone with a mental age above 7yrs old is sufficiently wise to realise that if something seems too good to be true it probably isn't.

While it's great that IHERB sell the cheapest D3 and subsidize the postage to the UK, it's beyond belief they can sell the cheapest, provide the cheapest P&P and still give unreasonable rewards to those that recommend them.

I refer people to IHERB because they offer best value for money.

If I get some free D3 to give out to people that I meet, that's a bonus. I don't expect or deserve any other reward.

If you think IHERB are going to not only provide free supplements but also a worthwhile income to people who refer them, then it's about time you grew up and realized the real world is not like that.

No company can offer discount prices, discount postage and packaging and offer not only free supplements but also financial rewards to existing customers.

They have to make a profit.
They have to cover costs.

If you don't believe me put up your own links to your own rewards code.
You will soon see how many refrrals from your links IHERB record.

I assure you, I post links to IHERB for the readers benefit,not mine, anyone who thinks otherwise probably has a mental age below 7yrs old.

If you doubt me, then it's easy for you to post your own IHERB reward code online.
You will soon see if I'm being totally honest.
But be aware that Unused Rewards Credits expire after 180 days. If you cannot work out how that affects the issue then really you need to grow up a bit and understand the real world is not as generous as you would like it to be.

Rosso said...

Ted sorry to hear this mate. I guess they would rather pimp medication and stay in a diabetic state and hence a part of their online community in their little bubble.

One forum I rate highly is:

Also I'd like to give credit where its due, I only buy from iherb.com now. Its fantastic. I have recommended this to everyone as the cheapest place to buy their supplements.

Chris said...

Ted, you are a standard bearer. I am well in an agreement that dispassionate and rational reasoning over habitat and health can be illuminating. It is the sort of thing we can apply to other species but not, apparently, to humans. Diet and latitude as associate with health are my curiosities, as is the inverse availability of marine omega-3 to vitamin D.
Metabolic dysfunction as obesity, IR or T2DM are well up my list of interests and I have invested some expectation that each are attributable in the main to high GL diets and PUFA imbalances.
FSA board meeting of 8/12/2009 was interesting because there looks a new focus. Chief Scientist reported he had met with a senior of NICE to discuss areas of mutual interests; incredibly, the first such meeting. Meeting is available via FSA pages as v-o-d. Vitamin D question was raised by MoP and if I recall response correctly Vit D interest is on FSA horizon. You could soon advance to the Q&A close to end of vid.
Truth is I'm in this deeper than my education really prepares me for. Thoughts and recognition advance faster than I have time to properly read the kind of books and authors that would become the founding knowledge. I know humankind is sold expensive consequence laden solutions where low-input solutions would do better. That's a recognition of something I find counter-democratic. It'll be an uphill struggle but Parkinson and Langley add some legitimacy to what we are saying. In the very least we share a birth-sign.